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CAL
24 Posts |
 Posted - May 23 2009 : 11:31:03 AM
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I was playing a hilly seaside course yesterday and the greens were impossible to read. Everything broke hard towards the ocean, and I knew that, but the greens all appeared to be sloped away from the ocean. I had putts breaking uphill all day long. I had what looked like uphill puts that were actually downhill. I never 3-putted so much in my life. I have had similar problems playing canyon courses where the greens are cut into the side of a hill. All of the surrounding terrain says the put breaks one way but it actually breakes the other way. It is like an optical illusion. Is there a trick or technique to reading greens like this?
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2009 : 2:21:15 PM
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Hi Cal,
Wished I was playing that hilly seaside course, sounds beautiful. Wondered how you read the greens. Do you read 'at' the hole, or do you read from behind it? Mike talks about getting behind or below the hole in the instruction, that makes a big difference for me and I try to at least take a quick look from behind on most putts now. Maybe reading in reverse is what you're looking for.
Here's a Pelz link on this method:
http://www.golf.com/golf/special/article/0,28136,1711985,00.html
Hope this helps,
kb
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2009 : 03:46:27 AM
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Reading greens is about learning how perception works as your eyes cant really see the break.
This is also why many pro´s are bad at putting even Tiger as they dont trust what they dont see.
To read green, you must be able to "sense" how much it falls as this involves basically your ability to imagine angles and surface with roll.
Our eyes, in how we see, cant see how much the grass falls, its an optical illusion which is shown where average players cant read enough fall. They miss it on the lower side of the cup most of the time.
Reading greens involves to learn how you eyes and perception works and that you cant trust the eyes and what you see, and must learn to sense how the ball rolls sensing this with your vestibular system.
No tip is going to work with this but once learned its easy to read greens.
/rob
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
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six-gold
127 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2009 : 11:33:13 PM
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Flopper, is this why i am having a difficult time understanding the vestibular system? Perhaps you could present it in simpler layman's terms to make it a tad easier to read greens.
The mechanics of the semicircular canals can be described by a damped oscillator. If we designate the deflection of the cupula with #952;, and the head velocity with \dot q, the cupula deflection is approximately
\theta (s) = \frac{\alpha s}{(T_1 s+1)(T_2 s+1)} \dot{q} (s)
El |
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2009 : 03:37:21 AM
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The vestibular system is located in the ear to keep the balance.
We have 2 ways to hold balance, one is visual which most people are used to, the other is the vestibular system which some might notice going in a train when another train is moving there can be a different sensation present as the brain gets mixed messages regarding the input of balance.
The difference can be tested by standing on one leg, with eyes open vs closed.
To read greens better, one can use the bodys way to keep the balance to read the angle of roll that is more acurate than the visual system.
Looking down the line, one simply use the body as an axis in how much the line will break.
Tilting the body in the same way the greens are angled.
This uses the vestibular system which allows a better calculation for the roll.
Its learning the difference what the eyes tells you and what the balance tells you.
When the difference is known, reading green is really easy.
Then the speed is more or less the only concern.
/Rob
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
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jclenden
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2009 : 08:21:49 AM
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What you're describing may help determine which direction a putt will break, but it won't tell you how much. Personally, I use my feet to help with direction. I stand upright and balanced and walk from the ball to the hole, and then back. I can feel which way my ankles twist (i.e. which foot is higher) along the path, which tells me the likely direction of the break at each point along the way. It also clues me in to higher or lower spots along my path.
Aside from the general direction of the break, what your balance/vestibular does NOT tell you is which direction the grass lies, how long the grass is, how dry the green is, the firmness and smoothness of the putting surface, the wind, etc. In other words, all of the other factors you must compute to determine if a putt will break, and how far. Reading greens is never easy, and even those who read greens for a living need lots of help. I would recommend searching the web for articles and videos on "how to read greens in golf". There are plenty of helpful aids out there. But the most important thing is to practice your judgment. Sometimes when I practice I simply bend down and roll a ball with my hand to see how much a putt will break. If you can figure out why a ball breaks as much as it does, you will be well on your way to developing better judgment.
These articles have some general guidance: http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction/article/0,28136,1581560,00.html
http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction/article/0,28136,1581583,00.html
http://golf.about.com/od/golftips/ss/reading_greens.htm
On using the feet: http://www.ehow.com/video_2357693_read-golf-green.html |
Edited by - jclenden on May 25 2009 08:37:35 AM |
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2009 : 11:13:19 AM
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Reading greens is easy.
People make it harder than it is.
On the greens I play, it wont matter what grass it is or how it falls as it simply is to rough.
When you know the fall and how the ball will behave as your reading the correct platue and fall, not with the eyes, the rest of the information can easly be calculated trough building an internal model of the green and putt on that before putting on the real one.
When there is a 1 to 1 relationship between the internal green and the outside one, then its really easy to read greens.
Then making the right speed and make a pure stroke is needed. (which is way much difficult than reading a green properly)
Its much easier to do that btw if the greens are the same speed.
Here I can one day have a green that isnt even lawn down enough, so the ball goes half the distance from one day to the next one.
If people think they dont build greens as in inside model in thier head they know little about how the brain works.
We are always doing that.
That is also why pro´s putt and have a better short game, their internal model is much better than the average player, and Yes I asked pro´s.
For them, the difference is really subtle between the internal operation and how they do on the outside.
Unless they are stressed, unsecure, etc..which effect the wholeness of juding the proper what to do right.
To much detail and people cant do squat.
Its due when they add to much what to do and details to the context it starts to affect their cordination and sync with hand/eye.
Most putts are missed trough a bad stroke more than miss reading greens.
since the thread starter asked about optical illusions which he was the victim off, he needs to know the difference between his visual output and his vestibular system or else he wont be able to read greens as such.
He be unsecure as fast he walks up on a green and starts to add more habits and create rituals, instad of knowing the difference what his eyes tells him and what his balance are able to tell him.
I taught putting to pro´s that way, and they become better.
My putts are misses with the stroke.
Symple putting made that better, and even on my greens which are not good for this kind of putting as they are like 2 on the stimp.
I make around 30 putts currently, and this will improve as the greens grow better during the summer.
More smooth and firm, whithout holes and such.
seeing the greens that for example Mike plays on is lightyears away for me here.
On better or even US Open greens, its much easier to putt due to the ball behave most exactly the same each and every time.
but I digress.
/Rob
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
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Reading putts
