| Author |
 Topic  |
|
SATTHMNS
121 Posts |
 Posted - May 29 2009 : 10:23:42 AM
|
" went to the range to smack a few balls.
had some epiphany of the swing and started to smack the ball pretty good. " (your quote)
What was your epiphany ?
|
 |
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2009 : 12:01:33 PM
|
How to position myself to the ball seeing the impact area as the same as a baseball impact area.
The angle from eyes to the ball area staying behind, created a feeling of knowing where to relate in space to the ball impact zone.
Having that, made sure the ball went straight and with solid hit each time.
I hit my 5i hybrid almost as far as my driver that way.
It was a tail wind down the range tho.
So, what I saw, was the position of angle in relation to the ball zone.
My impression was as a baseball hitter at least to my knowledge.
Looking what I percive to be behind the ball, shifted the impression in how to relate to the ball at impact allowing me to stay behind and do a good solid smack each time.
I guess it would be the same as a abseball guy if he knew where the ball would be at the same place each time, so then he would place himself in relation to that so he could swing away.
In my view, the golfswing as any moving object as icehockey or such the sensation where to be and position oneself when known is the same.
This one position then becomes the generalization or structure which then the athlete organizes oneself from which allows a continious and similiar performances each time.
Achiving consistency.
So, when this position is known, the difference and resulting performances are viewed to be the same or slightly different depending on what one would like to achive, curveball, fastball, etc..the swing would be the same each time, just different.
My take on this is the level of motoric generalization that occours that is handled to what people call habit or automatic so the function and movement or motion is the same each time.
The swinger just adapts to the input but basically just do the same thing each time.
One swing for each shot.
/Robert
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 01 2009 : 11:57:46 AM
|
Target for this week, shot personal best and par or better.
played 18.
48/37=86
7/18gir.
40putts.
4 putted first green.
all day bad chips and pitches.
Bad putting.
Played ok last nine but had two 3 putts.
Played 9 holes more, hit driver 130meters carry into bunker, dbgy.
Made 2 dbgyes due to bad decsions.
chipped to pin 2 first holes.
Went 6 over for the nine holes since I made some poor decisons.
solid play except for bad driver short as hell.
I just need 50-70 yards more with driver, then I am set for tour play.
cant get the driver any speed at all.
220meters is the best and that is with tailwind.
NO Power.
it just sucks.
Range sessions is no good, just hit good shots there.
I need more power now.
cant play the game as I want as it is.
Working on the chipping and pitching as I been off a little to much.
was at 50% last nine holes I played extra but was getting silly ideas and made poor decisons.
My short game and ironplay is as good as shooting par or better.
On my homecourse I should be able to shoot 65 with ease.
Even if I am as short as I am with the driver.
shooting 85 or so, simply sucks as the lost shots are mainly with the short game which should be much better.
Tomorow, I be going low.
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 02 2009 : 10:33:44 AM
|
q, the difference between a scratch player and Flopper?
answer: Flopper makes 2/9 up and down, a scratch makes 7/9 so Flopper shots 79.
Played 18, shot 79.
10gir.
one birdie, and couldnt save par from anywhere and all putts was lip outs.
One of those days when its just a little to much off.
I could have at least shot 10 shots better as I never was in any trouble all day.
Well, tomorow, I be smacking the home course to oblivion when I gonna go and shot par.
its due time now.
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
SATTHMNS
121 Posts |
Posted - June 02 2009 : 4:11:53 PM
|
"So, when this position is known, the difference and resulting performances are viewed to be the same or slightly different depending on what one would like to achieve, curveball, fastball, etc..the swing would be the same each time, just different.
My take on this is the level of motoric generalization that occurs that is handled to what people call habit or automatic so the function and movement or motion is the same each time.
The swinger just adapts to the input but basically just do the same thing each time. " (your qoute Flopper)
I AM JUST NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN HERE YOUR EPEFIMY OR WHAT EVER THE NEW SECRETY IS? Any IDEA THAT CAN HELP IS WHAT I NEED !!
|
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 02 2009 : 5:48:12 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by SATTHMNS
I AM JUST NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN HERE YOUR EPEFIMY OR WHAT EVER THE NEW SECRETY IS? Any IDEA THAT CAN HELP IS WHAT I NEED !!
hehe.
How to convey this properly is though.
when I lean to the right, my visual input changes along with the vestibular system with the internal sensation where it "feels" like I am standing behind the ball impact zone at set up.
Obviosuly this conveys a feel reference for how I set up to the ball.
So, for me it feels I am behind the ball.
It becomes more of a baseball feel where I am about to strike the impact zone coming from behind to the impact and going down the line.
When I do that, it feels like I can generate the power and get a solid hit and the ball goes straight each time.
My game today was flawless, best ever as I was never in any trouble, except that I tried to go for green in two, and sliced the ball into the water and I was short with some shots.
But I wasnt behind the ball all day, except in the last few shots of the day, and some earlier when I just did it right.
I will play with this behind feel tomorow, and see what i can make.
I will shoot low this week as MY game never been better.
Its just some small adjustments I need to fine tune.
Rangesessions are often just good.
practice also.
So, transfering this to the course, I be able to shot 65.
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 03 2009 : 08:50:14 AM
|
Played 18 and failed to shot p best or par.
lost 2 balls.
three 3 putts.
84.
didnt save par once when missing green.
100% chip and 2 putt.
9gir.
spent some time before going out on the practice tee and green.
straight shots, putting good and chipping good.
cant play on course tho.
Lacking power to get really competetive on longer courses and my short game currently is only good on practice green.
positive is,
hitting irons straight, choosing wrong club for distance.
putting improved distance control.
Keep spending time on practice chips and pitches will make it to the course one day. its good but off on course.
Negative is,
anoyed as hell with hitting short drivers.
Makes it no fun playing knowing I cant simply hit the driver long enough to hit a short iron to green.
sure its enough at my homecourse but on any normal course, I be a sitting duck due to lack of powr.
set up two good approach shots, made one for birdie, but had 4 to 8 yards or so which dosnt cut it for birdie putts.
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 04 2009 : 09:58:04 AM
|
decided to work on power for one week.
I want 270-300yard drives.
Played 9 holes,
10over 46.
sliced driver 50yards, carry 150yards. lacking 150 yards of power.
played same 9 holes again, shot 14 over 50.
No power, slice, bad shots.
Symple swing is suppose to be easy, guranteed, to add distance and I am hitting shorter than with previous swing.
No power.
slice.
no power.
slice.
I give this one week, then I might need to switch golf system as I cant stand being this short.
Simply isnt long enough and this cant continue.
Joe havent responded for a week.
not a happy camper here.
/Robert
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
Gman32
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - June 04 2009 : 10:13:32 AM
|
Sounds like your putting to much pressure on yourself mate! probably playing and practicing to much as well! My advice is take a couple of days off, then come back with a rested body! You may find your practicing bad habits caused by fatigue and you don't realise it!
Greg @ Coogee, Australia
Hcp 6 |
|
|
|
simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - June 04 2009 : 2:05:52 PM
|
Hi Robert,
I do apologize for missing your last couple of emails. I have set up a special filter just for your emails to make sure that doesn't happen again.
Okay as we've discussed I wanted to get you back on-plane before we begin to work on power. Obviously this power problem is bothering you so we can work on that first. Please be aware that since your not on-plane we will give you a bunch of distance but it won't necessarily be straight. After we add the power in then we'll work on straight.
Okay, in looking at the video of your swing it seems your upper body again is quite good (except for being off plane). By off-plane I mean the butt of the club is pointing outside the target line not at the extended target line like it should. You club is below the plane or too flat at this point.
However your lower body action is where the problem is. Symple Swing is a core (shoulders, chest & abdomen) but that doesn't mean we don't want a power contribution from the lower body. If you look at the picture of your swing below which is near the top of your backswing you'll see both your legs are almost dead straight. Yes we want your front leg straight to hit into but the back leg should be in a athletic position with the knee bent.
As you can see, when you swing you have almost no hip turn. Look at your video and you'll see your hips hardly move. You're powering your swing pretty much with 100% upper body power. This is the major limiting factor in your swing. This is what is robbing you of power.
Watch the hip action on this video clip. Note: that back knee is actually bent a bit more in this video that it might appear from this camera angle.
http://www.simplegolf.com/pp-powertips.htm
Here is what you need to do:
1. It's very important that you review the Symple Turn article http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~1192.asp
2. You need to practice getting that back hip turning away from the ball.
3. The back knee need to be bent in a athletic position. Get the weight on the balls of your feet.
4. Hit some balls with your back heel up. Review the Back Heel Up Drill http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~326.asp
5. To gain a little more power I'd also like you to review the Pre-Cock Drill http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~565.asp The wrist should loose enough so it cocks in the direction of the right thumb at the top of the backswing. This allows the wrist to function as part of the segmented whip of the downswing. If you don't let the segment cock and then whip on the downswing you'll definitely lose power.
You need to learn to hit into (or brace into) your front leg through impact. In order to do that you have to start turning your hips.
I'm sending you a downloadable version of the Power Tips DVD video for you to review. (I couldn't remember if you have the Power Tips DVD or not. If you do just disregard the download e-mail.) The drills in that video will definitely help you use the hips and legs to add in some significant power to your swing.
Robert this isn't about swing systems. This problem is about effectively applying force to an object (hitting something with speed). In order to hit something with power and speed you need to use your muscles in a synchronized and additive manner. You seem to be okay in the synchronization of the muscles your are using but you are just plain not using some very important muscles (hips & legs).
One more thing. Your address position is very upright. That is one of the causes of your back swing being below the swing plane. At the very beginning of your downswing you finally bend at the waist to try to get back into the proper impact position. That extra movement adds a lot of variables and opportunity for inconsistency into your swing. So bottom line I'd like to see you address the ball at impact in a position much more like your impact position (with more bend at the waist). Notice how upright you are part way up in your backswing and how flat your club is.
Try the suggestions above. I'm sure you'll have a significant power gain. BTW, I'm still open to a phone or skype schedule.
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 05 2009 : 08:32:49 AM
|
In the search of power many kings have been looking for it trough and down the ages.
1 hour range session.
0-25minutes: Worked on right heel up, bring hips into swing, cock the wrists, and not much did work. (did a few swoosh drills.)
50yard slices and no power.
25-40minutes: adjusted more over the ball from waist. And started to relax the whole right side.
I simply set up and then just made sure all right side was so relaxed only the needed muscles tension was done to keep the position.
This with a better look out for the ball impact allowed at least my body to follow around and more hips could be engaged into the swing.
40-60minutes: Continue to work on relaxation for the time being. (200yard carry on range)
Results was, a more solid contact with driver and one shot was pretty good and I had 3 shots hitting the same area with a 3 yard spread.
I cant say it was more power into the swing, but at least this allowed me to stay relaxed trough the whole swing and get all body parts into the motion.
Evaluation:
As I had this hour to practice, a few things was adjusted.
One, I was having way to much tension in the lower body, due to keep the lower body still and when relaxing the whole right side, this could be kept looser.
Did not fixate the ball impact zone when swinging, not sure why I hadnt done that before, doing this allowed a better controlled motion.
Relaxing the right side and keeping that trough the whole swing, allowed me time to feel what was going on and I could start to sync up much better to brace into the front leg.
I still cant say I do that good tho, the bracing bit.
However, this allowed me to be as long as I had hit balls before but with much less tension, and then the slice wasnt present.
I guess I need 20 yards more carry, at least on the range to be more into the distance I would want.
Progress and update:
I will continue work on relaxation trough the whole swing combined with the swoosh drills as this much likely will allow me to raise the swing speed and let me start to sync up the body with the increase speed much better.
I be playing tomorow and then I be making sure to work on the relaxation and the swoosh at 80% or so trough the round.
I based this upon that I am not able to have a full body swing and I need to learn the motion better when the whole body with hips leads with the left side as this will most likely allow me the swing speed I seek.
Progress report tomorow.
/Rob
|
|
|
|
SATTHMNS
121 Posts |
Posted - June 05 2009 : 09:54:21 AM
|
I don't know if your range balls are like ours or not, but many ranges here use balls that go near as far as the real one you play with on a course. They make special balls that most ranges over here use so they don't have balls flying 250-300 yards plus. That is done because most courses don't have the room or equipment to pick up balls that fly that far. I know my home range has the #2 fairway , and green behind our Driving range. so they have balls that will not go much over 200 yards. I don't not pay any attention at all to how far my Drives go on the range. I just look to make sure that they go in the right direction and are solidly hit. When i am on the course playing a round I can judge my distance there but not on the range.
(your range maybe differnt , but I do know around here it is very common and really most courses have these range balls that won't go very far) |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 05 2009 : 10:53:02 AM
|
seen a long driver hit these balls 70+ and over the range over the road into the pond on other side hehe.
tried his driver, was like a rock.
In my estimate, these balls go around 20yards shorter than real balls.
so, 200yard carry here, is 220 on course with the same hit.
which means, another 20yards, and its much ok in regards to distance in my view.
When I get there, it be focus to work on short game and consistency even more.
240yards carry, would be enough to be competetive.
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 06 2009 : 10:47:30 AM
|
It was the talk of the day at the caffe that indiana Jones was sighted at the trainstation in the search of power relics.
Played 18.
9/18gir.
shot 81 with 2 lost balls and 3 shots in one bunker..
29putts.
A slight power increase.
Hit my irons a little longer.
Driver still eluds the power though even if it was more straight than before.
Worked on relaxtion, get the hips into the swing, and I understand now what to feel, even though I cant replicate it enough it is a positive sign.
Good today, was putting.
No 3 putts, woohoo.
Made 2 birdies, one 40footer at 10, and then finished the day with a birdie.
My short game was good.
spent some time on the practice range and I continue tomorow.
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 07 2009 : 11:02:16 AM
|
Played 18.
10/18gir.
33putts.
was +5 after 9 holes, two 3putts.
Then I made, 3 straight birdies, 3 putted 13 for par, 3 putted 14 for bogey, saved par on 15, made birdie on 16, was 2 over for the day.
Lost 2 balls and played 6 over on 17 and made bogey on 18.
shot 80.
Score wise, 69 should been more appropriate regarding my game.
Power, hit the shorter clubs better, more distance and those clubs I am happy with.
Driver still sucks.
3w is ok.
Overall, I am getting my hips into the swing more, and I am able to at least to some degree, get a consistency in my approach shots.
Putting is good.
Just a tad bad on longer putts, left to many way short so hard to 2putt. 10feet or so 3 times, which isnt that easy to make.
Was having 2 gimme birdies, made 5 birdies which is a personal best, but also should have made at least one more as I made green in 2 on the short par5.
Overall, play solid and consistent.
Went up in tempo a little to much, and played 17 badly, should play that hole with 4i instead of 3w, as it is a short par 4.
I do that tomorow.
I expect to shoot under par in the coming week.
that is how good it is atm.
edit: oh, lowered my handicap to 9.6.
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
Edited by - flopper on June 07 2009 11:16:51 AM |
|
|
|
simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - June 08 2009 : 5:53:02 PM
|
Hi Flopper,
Very good. 3 straight birdies is good golf in anybody's book. It definitely sounds like some progress.
I'll like to see those hips and leg really getting into the swing. Could you put up another video?
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 09 2009 : 05:02:05 AM
|
I get some video when I can.
Maybe today.
I might have solved the driver issue at least with the slice.
It seems I was opening up my shoulders to help the ball fly which basically make the opposite from what I want.
I be going to the range later today to confirm this and might be able to shoot some video.
I was not happy with just 3 birdies in a row, I 3 putted a par 5 and had a lip out for the birdie from 10feet.
The good thing was that I was 3 under the first 7 holes of back nine, before I blew it on 17.
Game is good.
When driver will work, I tear up the course.
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - June 10 2009 : 08:20:22 AM
|
Progress report:
Power, still lacking but a small increae has been made with irons.
I hit irons longer.
Positive note: I have found the slice reason, opened up my shoulders to help the ball fly.
standed behind, and did the same swing, allowed me to start hitting straight drives.
I hit my best drives all summer in spite of still having a plane swing issue.
More solid contact and starting to make progress.
Almost made the par 5 third hole in 2, had a good tailwind helping out but was 30 ayrds short of green, best ever finish, naturally pitched 10yard past pin.
Negative note: swing plane. messing up my shots due to being tired.
Pitch shots need work as I missed them way to much long or short.
Tempo and consistency has gone off, its due to being tired also, I am taking 2 or 3 days off totally to fix my body and mind.
Extra positive note: all clubs works now. I feel confident I be able to shot low scores at the home course without much issue due to, being acurate and long enough for this short course. I need to add, 30-40 yards to driver during the summer.
The focus on power this week, have helped me gain, more distance with irons, found the issue with driver slices, add hips and a more relaxed swing to get the whole body in sync.
I feel I can hit an approach shot with irons on the pin without much dispersion, never been as acurate as I am currently.
Pitch shots needs work and chipping and putting.
However, as I can gain a more solid overall shotmaking, scores will go down.
Now rest.
Latest Video of range session.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P3jmQgGIwo
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
|
|
|
kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - June 10 2009 : 1:49:57 PM
|
I gotta admire your tenacity, Rob. You will reach your goals, I get worn out just trying to keep up with your posts. I'm trying to hang on to Jeff and you like a pilot fish in hopes that I can bring my scores down too. I can't match your flexibility, have to rely on less turn and more lift to get the job done...oh, and make every putt as well. Thanks for help making it so much fun, you've earned a little rest. http://www.vimeo.com/5097283
Best,
kb |
|
|
|
simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - June 10 2009 : 2:34:32 PM
|
Hi Flopper,
Definitions:
Target Line - A line from the target to the ball
Extended Target Line - A line that is an extention of the target line that extends back behind the ball to infinity.
Very good on the progress and I do see your hips turning a bit more, that's very good.
You really need to find a course somewhere that has a swing trainer like this. You set this trainer plane to match your swing plane with the specific club you're using and then it will help keep you on plane. If you can find a trainer like this it will be much easier to build the muscle memory needed for to stay on-plane.
Your swing starts off with a very, very low backswing. Your club is parallel to the Extended Target Line and it's only six inches off the ground!!! AT THIS POINT YOUR SHAFT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HORIZONTAL. Your spine is very vertical at address. Then when you rotate around your spine you are automatically bringing the club back on the inside (under the swing plane) I'd like to see you bend at the waist quite a bit more at address and (I'd like to see the back knee bent a bit more).
Way under the swing plane
At this point the butt of the club should be pointing at the Extended Target Line. The butt of your club is pointing out almost straight in front of you. Your left arm is inside but it's not terrible. IT'S THE CLUB BEING SO LAID OFF (ALMOST HORIZONTAL) THAT CAUSING MOST OF THE PROBLEM. If you were in this position and the butt of the club was pointing at the Extended Target Line you'd be in pretty good shape.
If I took the club back so far on the inside I'm pretty sure I couldn't hit the ball nearly as well as you do. The problem is that the inside takeaway is giving you a very big handicap. You have to make a lot of adjustments on your downswing to get back on plane and that's costing you consistency and distance.
Right now I'd like to see you practice some dry swinging (no ball but have something indicating the ball and the Extended Target Line). Stick a very long tee in the butt of the club and practice on your backswing getting the butt of the club tracing that Extended Target Line until it's second nature. You won't learn to change your plane while hitting balls. You really need to do hundreds of dry practice swings (and Set-Up Waggles http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~332.asp )making sure the butt of the club (with the long tee sticking in it) traces the Extended Target Line on your backswing.
Try hitting these two positions during your backswing.
1. When the shaft is 45 degrees back from the starting address position the shaft should be pointing at the Extended Target Line.
2. When the shaft is horizontal it should be pointing directly back parallel to the Extended Target Line.
If you can just hit those two positions your be well on your way to a really nice one plane swing.
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Preparing season 2009.
