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shefield
65 Posts |
 Posted - November 15 2006 : 07:18:32 AM
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After 5 months with SimpleSwing, I'm giving up. From "simple" to overly-complicated in20 short weeks. I've gotten horribly confused with grip adjustments, elbow adjusments, wide stance, T-Lock stance, thumb cock, dead wrists,etc. I've lost all feel for my swing and can't hit my way out of a paper bag.
weird peter
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Donal
51 Posts |
Posted - November 15 2006 : 2:04:25 PM
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Dear Peter,
I don’t think your alone with your problems, SS is difficult when we try to expand our golf game past our first successes. When I first got SS I gave it a week and decided against it and went back to old ways, 6mts later I took it out again and worked hard at it read all the posts and made some improvement ….. Then I went downhill.
At this time I noticed that Boris and quit a few other major forum users were active with regular posts so I persevered with it I even had a phone lesson with Joe but my game was gone cold and like you couldn’t hit my way out of a paper bag, then I noticed Boris had admitted that he wasn’t a true Simple Swinger and that he took out of it what he needed and used what he already had to enjoy his golf, this is now what I have done and I’m happy now to report that golf is enjoyable again. SS is not the answer to everything but for the price there is a lot of good information, the problem is on the forum a lot of well meaning but inexperienced SS golfers are offering advice and it becomes a bit of the blind leading the blind. The SS info regarding the grip is good but it don’t have to be exactly as per the video just make sure the face is square.
I had a lot of trouble with the lock down stance but now I just use a little rock of my hips towards the target when I am in the address position and that gives me a great power position (that’s something I hadn’t found in any other golf books, vids etc just try it) also I let my body find its own natural path, too much tinkering with elbows and swing planes had my upper body and my head in a mess, put that together with a restricted thought of trying to keep my lower body still, well I know what you mean by toast but look at it like this forget all the points you have to do just set up and turn your left shoulder under your chin then turn your left shoulder back again and hit it nice and smooth with no other swing thoughts little by little add a bit if it works fine if not bin it.
This is not a lesson and I’m not offering advice but from someone who like you got lost I’m just letting you know you’re not alone
I still enjoy the SS forums but I know that no swing system book, or video is the full package why… because were not, every one of them contradict each other and we want instant success. There is a lot of good in all of them you just got to take what suits you and most important have no more than one swing thought
Good Luck
Donal
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simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - November 15 2006 : 2:49:49 PM
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Hi shefield,
Learning a new golf swing is not easy especially when you have baggage from previous swings (most of us do).
We fully realize it's not easy to even recognize, never mind correct, your own swing faults. First thing I'd recommend is videoing your swing and let us review it. That helps most folks immediately. We will review the video of your swing for free. We're not trying to squeeze extra money out of you. We honestly want you to succeed.
Even if you don't have a video camera or digital still camera that takes video clips (most do) you should be able to find a friend, neighbor or relative that has a camera and will video a couple of practice swings. You DO NOT have to be hitting balls. Just videoing yourself making some practice swings will be fine.
You can send smaller video clips (under 5 megs) to me by e-mail at joe@simplegolf.com. For larger files just use the free service at www.Pando.com I've had golfers send me very large files that way. If you prefer you could send a VHS or mini-DV tape to Simple Golf LLC 26 Maplewood Drive Danbury, CT 06811-4211
I can see you are frustrated. Let us help you. We're not going to give up on you and you shouldn't either.
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf
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mikeoleary
535 Posts |
Posted - November 15 2006 : 2:50:09 PM
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Shef and Donal
2 interesting posts
1st shef - remember some people love to tinker/get involved in swing theory/ positions by degrees etc - sounds like you are not that kind of person/player/ thinker. so why torture yourself - we know we have the 'soundest swing' there is - but it works in different ways for everyone. My recommendation is after a break come back do SS at the basic level - kind of like Donal has done - the reason we call it simple is because it is meant to be but sometimes on the forum SS's like to 'go deep' into the SS process etc - which is great but even I when giving a lesson never 'go deep' it is always KISS using SS so I guess it becomes
KISSUSS.
Let me know if I can ever work with you - good luck
Donal - appreciate you honesty and time to reply to one in need - so you are using your version of SS - great that is what we want - we never want to MAKE some one only do it our way - but take what errors or mistakes you are making in a normal swing and if one or all 7 or 8 of our 'swing concepts/fundamentals makes you a better golfer - having more fun - hitting it better and longer, then we have done our part in telling and teaching you that SS works.
Remember we are breaking ground here as a instructional video that actually helps people dramatically play better, we make people understand 'the swing' and how to self correct, how to swing the club with less error and use larger muscles to create power. Our success rate is terrific and we plan to only get better with upgraded new videos and support. If you know Joe and I, we both are dedicated to the success of our SS's - to basically do what ever it takes to make progress and help everyone experience success.
In fact yours is one the best 'testimonials' we've had because you come at it from a slightly different angle which would make sense to a lot of high handicap golfers who 'fight' change at first (only trying for 1 week - not enough practice and time) and then accept bits and pieces to make big advancements in distance and accuracy.
So thanks for your honesty and candor and we look forward to more insight / let us know how you are hitting the ball and scoring - especiallly if there is any questions I can help you with
take care
Mike O |
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Donal
51 Posts |
Posted - November 15 2006 : 5:36:09 PM
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Michael, thank you for your comments I assure you I do appreciate what you and Joe are doing and although not a 100% simple swinger myself as yet that is not of choice I do aim to get there it’s just that it don’t work for me if I try to digest it all together so while playing with a hybrid swing it will become more SS eventfully as I add and perfect bit by bit, an interesting experience with SS a little at a time is how quick a raw beginner can achieve some success without taking to much on board.
A few weeks ago I was at the driving range feeling good about my game hitting all clubs with good results when a young man 30/35 arrived in the next bay and started to practice thank god for the partition between us bang, bang, bang each shot hit everywhere in his bay and in between he would say sorry or God dam it after a while to break the ice I said to him frustrating isn’t it, more than that he sighed its impossible.
We started to chat and it turned out that he didn’t play golf but his company was having a golf corporate day the next day at the Belfry a scramble and he’d put his name down he’d borrowed some old clubs from his farther in law and he had about 12 hrs to become a golfer, Jesus that’s a Ryder cup course with 200yds carry of the teed and this guy couldn’t get it out of the range bay. I offered to try and help and first of all looked at his grip it looked more like how a pole dancer griped it and his leg action looked the same I showed him a simple way to address it and the SS grip nothing else then told him to just turn his shoulders back and back again while keeping his eye on the ball and all his lower body still no talk of lock down just don’t think of the legs just one swing thought turn his shoulders back and back again we agreed on a 5 iron and he got another bucket of balls now I’m not going to say he creamed every shot but he hit the ball and he hit it straight he started to smile and before I left he said he was looking forward to his golf day.
The reason for telling you this little story is that he had a clear mind he new nothing at all about golf and the only SS tips I gave him were grip and shoulders nothing else and in a few minuets this guy was interested in golf I never did see him again so I don’t know how his game went but he didn’t have to remember too much.
I think there is a lesson for all interested in SS here, the name Simple does not mean you take in all the info and expect it to work it’s not that simple I believe it’s a work in progress and when approached with a clear mind over a extended period it’s great fun but just a little at a time and there is a period where you are in the wilderness but as they say if there is no pain there is no gain.
Donal
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mikeoleary
535 Posts |
Posted - November 15 2006 : 8:01:39 PM
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Donal
Bravo! congrats on making a unbelievable difference in a guys first golf experience.
What other 'method' could you have introduced him to and made such a positive impact?
"You are a good man Charlie Brown" (U S comic book reference )
Thanks for the info and great job using SS and passing it along to those in need. Next time you run across a struggling golfer give the same advice ( which is what I would have done too by the way) but also give him our web address so we can continue the success snowball.
Have a great day / please keep us informed of progress
before you know it you might have to charge a few quid??/$$ for the next piece of advice
Coach Donal
good luck
Mike |
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shefield
65 Posts |
Posted - November 16 2006 : 11:38:23 AM
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Dear Donal, Joe and Mike
Thank you all very much for the kind words, encouragement and offers to help my game with SS. I guess my overall point was that when I first looked at your DVD's and pamhlets I seemed to get an intuitive grasp of Symple Swing and my results were quite promising. Then I developed some trouble with my grip and I've never really been able to get a full answer to a question I posted s few months back. I have trouble controlling the club in my left hand and I had asked about heel pad involvement. Some of the pictures and video footage of Mike appear to show him using his left heel pad to grip the club, but from what I've read, your description really doesn't state heel pad use. I seem to recall your reply that it wasn't that big a deal - except that I can't really figure out how to hold the club for SS. If I can't get the proper grip, how can I swing in the proper manner? The grip that seemed to produce the best results was one that wore a hole out in my glove in the ridge area of my left hand (between heel pad and thumb pad). Problem was that it ultimately caused me great pain in my left wrist.
I also can't seem to keep my lower bod quiet. I've tried the tradition SS setup as well as T-Lock stance. In both positions, I tend to tense my entire body and just can't seem to stop doing it.
As I'm writing, I know the real answer to my problems (No, not taking up another sport!). Get down and take a Lesson with Mike. I hope I can do this. Yesterday's post was just my way of venting some golfing frustration.
Best Wishes,
Peter
weird peter |
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Clyde
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - November 16 2006 : 1:11:10 PM
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Peter,
I have the same problems you do. However, some good news Harry Lundberg has a modified grip that may solve the grip problem. I hope to get to the range today and see, it feels good swinging in the basement. I'm working on the lower body problem don't have it solved.
Give Joe a call.
Clyde |
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shefield
65 Posts |
Posted - November 16 2006 : 3:36:12 PM
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Clyde,
Who is Harry Lundberg and could you describe the modified grip?
Thanks
Peter
weird peter |
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Clyde
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - November 16 2006 : 6:13:22 PM
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Peter,
Harry is a golf club expert and SS instructor. I just got back from the range and the new grip worked quite well for me. The description is long I'll try to cut and paste from e-mail. I hope this is OK with Joe and Harry.
Harry's grip:
As for the grip problem, I too have difficulty. My hands are relatively
small. While I can play with the double overlap, every so often I lose the
grip up at the top. Here is what I am doing now.
First of all the overall pressure of both hands is as light as I use on
power steering when driving the car. I want to hold that pressure constant
throughout the swing. This keeps forearm tension down, which is vital in any
type pf swing.
I find it a bit awkward to place my left thumb at 3 o'clock so I use two
o'clock. From there I can still keep my left elbow pointing down the target
line and do it tension free. I have found a number of players better off
doing the 2 o'clock position. Instead of squeezing the left thumb to hold
on, I squeeze with the bottom pad of the thumb. It's a gentle squeeze, just
enough to be aware of.
Then I use a ten finger grip. I put the right hand on the club with the
bottom pad of the right hand more or less over the thumbnail of the left
thumb. This places the right thumb on the shaft at roughly 2 o'clock as
well. I then extend the right hand fingers down the shaft such that there is
a separation between the right middle finger and the right forefinger. That
forefinger is down the shaft as far as I can get it. The shaft is now
resting right in the middle of the forefinger.You could say that position
makes the two hands a little less compact. They don't press against one
another the way a Vardon grip does in a conventional swing. But I find it
gives me stability and no slippage. As I rotate to the top the shaft weight
can be felt pressing down on the right hand forefinger, on the inside of the
middle knuckle. This puts me right on plane with the shaft pointing right
at the extended target line. In fact if I don't feel the shaft pressing at
the forefinger middle as I reach the top I abort the swing and start over.
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Edited by - Clyde on November 16 2006 6:15:38 PM |
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clarkntn
57 Posts |
Posted - November 16 2006 : 8:03:51 PM
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this is why i stay away from this forum mostly, swing thoughts complicate!
get the basics and go with them....i am shooting sub par rounds now and it truely is symple for me now.
all people are different...so said techs will be different for each player.
my example, i still use an interlocking grip but do the power thumb with it, i never could get the feel of the dbl overlap it was everywhere!
but i still keep my wrist flat, i make a good turn but keep legs still.
it works great for me.
i now just use the chipping drill when 100yrds or under, i hit the stick at least once a round but my GIR is though the roof='s lots of pars and birdies.
i haven't even looked at the symple putting...i don't fix nothing thats not broke, i Avg 1.87
shef i wish we could get together i would change your mind in one hour at the range.
i had a guy in his 60's hitting a good 30 yrds farther the other day and all in play....took all of 10 mins. |
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sroines
Canada
6 Posts |
Posted - November 17 2006 : 12:50:08 AM
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clarkntn “you stay away from this Forum” I don’t think so you’ve only been a member since June 2006 and already made 50 posts that’s equal to more than 2 a week stay away I think not your never anywhere else. You’re just so modest with your claims
sroines |
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shefield
65 Posts |
Posted - November 17 2006 : 07:22:03 AM
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Clyde,
Thanks for your help. I'll try Harry's grip this morning.
Peter
weird peter |
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shefield
65 Posts |
Posted - November 17 2006 : 12:45:02 PM
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Thanks Donal, Joe, Mike anD Clyde. I took your advice and went back to basics. This morning, I really worked on getting a good Power Thumb grip with very little heel pad involvement; next, I worked on T.H.E. Grip. For Irons I'm using the T-Lock stance. It's still a toss up for my driver - sometimes the Power Set stance seems best, but at other times I feel too wide, so I go back to a T-Lock.
Biggest discovery - I was no longer locking down my lower body, so I kept slippen and sliden - causing 180 degrees of bad shots. Also, I must take a big waggle to reinforce the idea that my shoulders do all the turning. Today was the best practice I've had in months. I'm hoping to carry it to the course reall soon.
weird peter |
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bkroon
223 Posts |
Posted - November 17 2006 : 1:21:21 PM
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Hi Shefield -
Hang in there, unlearning something is as difficult and time dependent as learning something.
I know what you are talking about, went from "this SS looks good" to "this SS isn't going to work" and back again. ( Actually several times.)
My left hand grip started with the Power left thumb at 3 o'clock ( boy this feels powerful ! ) and then progressively weak'nd ( 2, 1, 12, o'clock etc ) because of major pull-hooks.
Recently went back to LH thumb at 3 o'clock because it feel good, gives great control of the club.
Combined with the return to 3 o'clock have been working on timing, & tempo. Started over again with pitching and chipping using the one-arm drill to warm up and begin chipping and pitching.
For me this drill promotes timing and tempo and here comes the biggie...... makes me quit trying to KILL the @#!$%*&$<> ball. For me over swinging ( swing too hard and too fast to kill the ball for distance ) is something I have to learn to control.
Swinging hard and fast DOES NOT produce distance, direction and control. In fact it is counter productive.
Any way, don't give up, it will come, change is always difficult.
Rob in Sunny  Phoenix AZ |
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dorro1971
75 Posts |
Posted - November 17 2006 : 2:11:34 PM
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Hi Shef et al,
v glad you back with us!....when i first tried ss i had the same thoughts...went back to normal golf and it didn't feel right,...too much to think about,..so i think once you've tried ss (and got to grips with it) you will not really be able to go back to normal golf!
I NEVER WILL!!!...
how long did you try normal golf for?
how good was it for you? (not that good or you wouldn't have looked at ss)
now,
how long have you given ss??...give it a fair try and then compare.
i had big problems turning my wrists over and hooding the ball
with lots of concentration that bad habit has now gone away.
my grip,..well:
top hand, normal ss grip
bottom hand,ten fingered but with a bottom hand power thumb if you can imagine it..both thumbs in line pointing the same way down the shaft.
looks clumsy, but i am now driving 380-400 yards, with a spread of approx 15-20 yards.
good luck and keep trying! |
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bkroon
223 Posts |
Posted - November 17 2006 : 3:53:03 PM
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Hi dorro1971 -
You nailed it....right on....I had the same big problems when I begain using SS.......turning wrists over and hooding.....big time pull-hook.
This time when I returned to SS.......that seems to be very very dimished.....still get some now and then....mostly when I try too hard, swing to hard.......just gotta relax, let it flow, quit trying to wrist-it !! And it will work for you !!
Rob in Sunny Phoenix AZ |
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Chazman
30 Posts |
Posted - November 18 2006 : 11:35:33 PM
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Took quite a while for me to catch on, but this swing is a SHOULDER SWING, letting the hands and arms getting involved in anyway, is a receipe for disaster.
I hold the grip as light as I can (like shaking hands with an new born infant)then make my shoulder turn back and through, the hands and arms loosely go along for the ride, if you are doing this right you should feel the club lagging behind at the start of the downswing.
Once you do it this way, and keep on the proper swing plane, you will feel effortless, clean crisp ball contact.
You don't have to "Crank it" from the very top, to get good distance. |
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Doug
11 Posts |
 Posted - November 21 2006 : 12:07:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde
Then I use a ten finger grip. I put the right hand on the club with the
bottom pad of the right hand more or less over the thumbnail of the left
thumb. This places the right thumb on the shaft at roughly 2 o'clock as
well. I then extend the right hand fingers down the shaft such that there is
a separation between the right middle finger and the right forefinger. That
forefinger is down the shaft as far as I can get it. The shaft is now
resting right in the middle of the forefinger.You could say that position
makes the two hands a little less compact. They don't press against one
another the way a Vardon grip does in a conventional swing. But I find it
gives me stability and no slippage. As I rotate to the top the shaft weight
can be felt pressing down on the right hand forefinger, on the inside of the
middle knuckle. This puts me right on plane with the shaft pointing right
at the extended target line.
Very interesting, the variations of the hands makes for a different feel, but it does seem to make the swing and staying on line much easier to do if you make sure to turn the shoulders and make sure that the left shoulder ends up under the chin on the back swing and then back down the line. I tried this swing this afternoon and had very good success in a tough 25 - 30 mph wind, very accurate.
Doug
Virginia Beach, Va. |
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Donal
51 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2006 : 2:52:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde
Harry's grip:
First of all the overall pressure of both hands is as light as I use on
power steering when driving the car. I want to hold that pressure constant
throughout the swing. This keeps forearm tension down, which is vital in any
type pf swing.
I find it a bit awkward to place my left thumb at 3 o'clock so I use two
o'clock. From there I can still keep my left elbow pointing down the target
line and do it tension free. I have found a number of players better off
doing the 2 o'clock position. Instead of squeezing the left thumb to hold
on, I squeeze with the bottom pad of the thumb. It's a gentle squeeze, just
enough to be aware of.
Then I use a ten finger grip. I put the right hand on the club with the
bottom pad of the right hand more or less over the thumbnail of the left
thumb. This places the right thumb on the shaft at roughly 2 o'clock as
well. I then extend the right hand fingers down the shaft such that there is
a separation between the right middle finger and the right forefinger. That
forefinger is down the shaft as far as I can get it. The shaft is now
resting right in the middle of the forefinger.You could say that position
makes the two hands a little less compact. They don't press against one
another the way a Vardon grip does in a conventional swing. But I find it
gives me stability and no slippage. As I rotate to the top the shaft weight
can be felt pressing down on the right hand forefinger, on the inside of the
middle knuckle. This puts me right on plane with the shaft pointing right
at the extended target line. In fact if I don't feel the shaft pressing at
the forefinger middle as I reach the top I abort the swing and start over.
Joe what’s this Harry’s grip and is it recommended. I find it a variation of the Vardon grip from CC but with the hands further apart and slightly weaker. I have not tried it as yet what do you think.
Donal
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simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - November 27 2006 : 1:13:11 PM
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Hi Donal,
Sorry for the delay in answering this. It was a long holiday weekend here and the kids were home so lots of family things to do.
Harry's grip works for some folks especially if they've previously used a right hand grip similar to that with their conventional swing.
It's okay to experiment a little with Harry's grip but it's NOT a grip I generally recommend.
I don't recommend it because for most people it gives the trail hand (the right hand for right handers) a bit too much power making it more likely they'll start hitting too much with their right hands (and right sides). When you hit too much with your right hand you become more of a hitter and less of a swinger. Also because the grip gives so much power to the right hand some people start rolling their right hands over the left hands through impact closing the club face causing hooks.
That said Harry and some others use this grip very successfully with Symple Swing. But as I said, mostly the folks that use this grip are folks that had used a similar grip with their previous swings.
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf |
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Giving up
