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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
 Posted - July 09 2009 : 4:26:33 PM
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Well Coach, it's day two of 1k core turn drills. Here's a clip of what I'm attempting to do, I just need to know if this counts or do I have to start over again ...just trying to go easy and not cheat to much to begin with.
http://vimeo.com/5527910
Coming off a period of bad back and thought I might get away with the head movement if I kept my feet planted. Also letting myself stand up instead of getting into a full stance. I'm about as flexible as a plank, but I do feel a stretch while doing this. Trying to do 1 set /50 reps each of sternum and hand turns.
Combined with some breathing, that seems to get me warmed up for 50 full swings with live ammo using a practice grip I came up with after mashing my power thumb about a month ago. Try to apply the power thumb grip to the letter to begin with, then hook the shaft across the second knuckles of the trail hand and apply a little opposing force, a power triangle while leaving the thumb completely off and inline down the shaft with the left thumb. Open baseball grip? Then get in a balanced stance, turn/turn with the shoulders and follow through.
Still doesn't look like much turn, and all the other suspect movements are there as well, but I will stay on this and see if I can't make some improvement. At least I figure I'll be off the hook in 7 days with the 1K reps...if you'll let me. Been taking some time off and playing, not bad either (love my scoring mach putter) for this slapper/swinger. You guys are the glue keeping me together.
Best,
kb
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jclenden
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - July 09 2009 : 7:25:55 PM
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It's good to see you doing some penance.
Kurt, compare your two drills with your first swings. In the drills you are turning the torso just fine. But as soon as you start the swings you quit; your chest remains pointing at the ball while your arms go back. That's not what you practiced.
I do a similar drill but I put my arms straight out to my sides and turn back and forth while standing straight up. Next I bend over into a golf stance and do the same thing. If I do it properly there won't be any pulling sensation in my mid back region because the belly is turning, not just the shoulders or arms. With arms straight out to my sides, my lead arm should point straight at where the ball would be on my backswing and the belly button should be pointing around 70*-80*. On the follow through my trail hand will point straight at where the ball should be and my belly button will almost be pointing at the target. That is a full turn with the full torso, or at least as much as one can turn without injuring your lower spine.
Another way to do this drill is to press the butt end of a short club directly into your belly button. Hold it tightly there and turn back and through. Where does the club point? How far can you turn your navel without pain and without completely collapsing your back leg/hip? That is where you want to be on every backswing, and the arms shouldn't go much further than that or you'll get into trouble. (I know about that one!  )
Thanks for the video. Your view from down the line looks like your very close to being on plane. Good luck!
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Edited by - jclenden on July 09 2009 7:40:07 PM |
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - July 10 2009 : 12:35:53 PM
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Jeff, that's a great drill and explanation. Don't think I'll get to that turn you make in your video, but I know I can do better with some work at it. Wary of the unwanted movements too, but I need to do a better job of moving things together. Leaving my belly behind would be good from a health standpoint though...more penance!
Thanks for the help!
kb |
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simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - July 10 2009 : 1:01:36 PM
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Hi Kurt,
jclenden hit the nail on the head with the comment about NOT turning the torso.
Here's a snap of your backswing just before the top of your backswing. Notice how far back you are with the club and YOUR CORE (SHOULDERS, CHEST & ABDOMEN) HASN'T MOVED AT ALL. Notice that your belly button and your sternum is still pointing at the ball!!
To increase you backswing try the "Power Triangle" Drill http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~305.asp That makes it much tougher to "fake" a backswing.
BTW, one other this to watch is that your left wrist is collapsing or cupping (bending back toward the top of your forearm) at the top of your backswing. That takes your club off plane and opens the club face so you have to make adjustments in your downswing to get back on-plane and square before impact reducing your consistency.
That "not turning your torso" is a good news bad news kind of thing for you. The bad news was that you weren't turning. The good news is when you start turning you're going to pick up a good bit of club head speed and distance.
My question: Are you reducing your core (shoulders, chest & abdomen) turn to try to protect your back? If you are trying to protect your back you should be adding in some hip turn using the Symple Turn http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~1192.asp
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf |
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - July 10 2009 : 3:11:12 PM
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Thanks, Joe. Have never been to flexible, and I really need to be working on regaining some of it. I am looking out for the back and trying to ease into this, but feel a lot better of late. Actually, just adding these drills seem to be helping after a couple of days. but my form needs to improve a lot from what I'm reading. The input here is much appreciated.
What feels like a turn sure doesn't look like one on video. Surprisingly though, even at that I've been 145+ with an 8 iron and right around 250 off the tee of late. Must be some belly mass moving the right direction. Not looking for a lot of distance really, just good mechanics that will let me keep playing.
I know I can improve here, thanks again for the help and I will stick with the drills. Time to go out and put a little work in.
Best,
kb
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - July 10 2009 : 3:43:38 PM
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Coach, I think we're both starting to get kinda slippery. I looked at the picture you posted again...isn't that into the downswing?
Here's a couple of captures I made, and honestly I don't know if you're gonna get a lot more turn out of me. But I'll sure as heck try.
Best,
kb
Face on - top of swing
DTL - top of swing
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simpleswing
951 Posts |
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - July 10 2009 : 7:29:39 PM
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No apologies needed, Joe. Thank you for taking the time to try and teach me something.
That's a pretty goofy grip I have going with the right thumb completely off, just did it for practice when my left thumb was cut and kind of stuck with it in practice. It may do more harm than good and maybe I should stop playing with it. I don't swing with that grip on the course, but did switch to a baseball grip. I don't want an early wrist set.
One thing I see in the video, top of backswing my torso stops and my arms continue to go back. Also my wrists continue to hinge or cup. I don't seem to have a very good or consistent stop mechanism back there.
My head likes to go up on the way back, seems to depend on keeping my right leg bent. Head really goes up when my back leg straightens. Think I am getting a little better at holding the right leg in position...maybe that limits my turn some as well. From the top my head will drop as I guess I sit into the left side and post. At the top of the backswing I feel my weight under the ball of my right foot, and it travels to the ankle of my left foot as I swing through the ball.
As your student, I guess what I see is unnecessary movement that just complicates things. What I have been trying to learn is if I can't correct all these movements, what do I need to try and fix and what should I just accept as 'owning' and go with it. I have learned and improved so much here, and still have a long ways to go. That's part of the fun of this game. More homework!
Thanks again,
kb |
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simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - July 13 2009 : 12:30:52 PM
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Hi Kurt,
Sorry I didn't respond sooner but I was away for the weekend.
You're right we all have our own swing quirks that we live with at least for a while.
You said.
quote:
One thing I see in the video, top of backswing my torso stops and my arms continue to go back. Also my wrists continue to hinge or cup. I don't seem to have a very good or consistent stop mechanism back there.
That's the part at the top of the the backswing where I see you getting into trouble. In the past most golfers have had the mistaken belief that if we didn't get back to horizontal then we weren't taking a full swing. That's B.S. Symple Swing is a compact swing but it's a full swing. You don't get any extra power by lifting those arm and especially by letting that wrist collapse.
Your right the key to Symple Swing is cutting down "unnecessary movements" because they add unnecessary variables into out golf swing that just means more opportunities to screw things up. Reducing those unnecessary movements will mean fewer swing screw ups and lots more good golf shots.
I'd suggest really concentrating on keeping your front wrist flat. Get a "wrist tactic" (or some such thing). Or strap something on (ace bandage, etc.) wrist to help keep that front wrist flat. That alone will help you find "your top of backswing'.
One other drill that could help is the Pre-Cock Drill The Pre-Cock Drill http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~565.asp pre-cocks the front wrist KEEPING IT FLAT so there is nothing left to cock (OR COLLAPSE) at the top of the back swing. That drill has helped a lot of students really understand for the first time what the correct top of backswing position should feel like.
I'd also suggest the old Shadow Drill http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~647.asp WATCH YOUR HEAD. You've gotten into the habit of bending forward to start your downswing. That's just a bad habit. You need to practice starting your downswing with a turn not a drop. The Shadow Drill will help with that.
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - July 13 2009 : 5:43:45 PM
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Thanks again, Joe. Got out for a round today and still have work to do, but pretty happy with the ball striking for the most part. Could really feel my bad swings (poor turns and couple of chunked shots) and knew right away what the problems were. Think you've pretty well summed it all up here. Was able to diagnose and correct, but still need more work with the drills so I'm not wrenching on the swing during the round.
I have been working on trying not to pre-cock the wrist. Played with this before with good results, but always seem to get into trouble with it eventually and just don't trust it. The flatter I keep my wrist, the better. I do have a tactic, and will work that back into practice. Been trying to keep my left arm and club more inline during the takeaway, and let the knuckles turn under just a bit when I start getting to parallel. Like a little counter clockwise twist with a screwdriver. Think this gives me a little bow instead of cup, and it helps me control the wrist. .
Hit some very solid shots today and am encouraged by what happened out there. Going to just spend more time with these drills and less time hitting balls in practice, Should have been doing this all along.
Best,
kb |
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SATTHMNS
121 Posts |
Posted - July 14 2009 : 12:28:02 PM
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When doing that core turning drill shouldn't you keep your head looking at the ball ? I seem to struggle more than anything with looking up and raising up too soon. It would seem to me that if you are doing that core turning drill that you should keep your head looking at the ball the entire time.
What do you guys think? |
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - July 14 2009 : 1:25:43 PM
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what helps for me is to look forward of the ball (down the line), as my head is kept back (I have a visual reference), I rotate around left shoulder.
this helps me stay solid in the shot without moving sideways.
When I do that, I can keep my head still and making sure the shot will be with good contact.
still working on that to be more consistent.
Giving up trying to meet goals and outcomes this year.
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - July 14 2009 : 2:22:01 PM
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Hi SATTHMNS,
You're probably right, haven't taken the time to review the drills on the DVD to check how Mike does them. I have been doing them upright like this to warm up and and I can turn farther and stretch a little better this way as well. I'm not very flexible and trying to loosen the old back up is a slow go. Starting to get some results though, and have added a heavy club to the drills. The symple putter.
Jeff's arms to sides drills...can do it fairly well upright but it gets tough bent over. These are tricky without the extra weight/momentum to swing you around. Just started doing these as well, trying not to cheat with the feet.
Also found about a 5' section of 1.5" wood closet dowel and started doing the old club behind the back/arms hooked over drill in the living room. I can check my head movement there with a mirror, and keep my eye on a ball/spot while trying to point the dowel at it from both directions. Make sure I'm warmed up and go easy with this one, but I can do it.
Really fell into some old bad habits with the bad back, never really quite shaken them but this is helping. The drills are giving me the correct feel, and immediate feedback on the course with miss hits...along with some badly needed strengthening and stretching.
Best,
kb
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - July 14 2009 : 2:30:03 PM
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Hi Flopper,
How far ahead of the ball do you look? I used to do something like that as well, pick out a spot maybe about a ball width ahead of the ball and focus on that spot during the swing. Sounds like a good idea and I'll add that to some practice.
Best,
kb |
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - July 14 2009 : 2:36:29 PM
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Its in front of the ball, but this is to keep my head back so I know that I am rotating and not moving into the left side swaying over.
a couple of inches I guess.
Giving up trying to meet goals and outcomes this year.
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - July 14 2009 : 2:50:36 PM
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I'll give it a shot, Rob. Think I have more of an up and down problem the lateral, but it's still head movement that I have always struggled with since I started looking at video.
quote:
You need to practice starting your downswing with a turn not a drop.
Joe busted me with that one. Seem to time it fairly well as I've probably always done it, I tend to trap the ball and have a lower ball flight than my buddies. When I start turning better my ball flight and distance seem to start climbing.
Thanks again,
kb |
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - July 14 2009 : 3:04:58 PM
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The idea is to create a visual reference so you can "see" when your dropping head or swaying, so you can keep track of doing it "Right".
This later become a feel or sensation with rhythm and tempo as you ingrain and work this out.
Every motion or move has to have a internal sensation which is backed by our visual and kinestetic sensations.
This isnt muscle memory btw which isnt acurate.
When the brain build connections, it builds "positions" so you become aware of the position you have, in relation to.
So, for me keeping track of the front of the ball, allows me to be in relation with my head to that position, to keep my shoulders level and being able to turn around left side.
This helped me today to hit good shots.
Now I have to do this enough so I become aware of this position enough to focus on other aspects later on if needed.(habit and reflex)
Still working on swingplane stuff.
The driver eluds me from time to time, which is a swing plane issue for me.
Giving up trying to meet goals and outcomes this year.
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SATTHMNS
121 Posts |
Posted - July 15 2009 : 11:44:53 AM
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I went to the range last night for the first time in a long time. I hit all of my Clubs GREAT looking at the spot in front of the ball like Rob suggested.
All of my clubs besides the DRIVER that is. For some reason I could not hi the Driver at all. (now it had nothing to do with looking at the spot) I was pulling or hooking most , did push or slice a couple though. I may have been getting tired by then also, I hit a lot of balls in a very short time. I was very excited about my best ball striking on the range ever with SS with every club I tried. Then when i got to the Driver nothing seemed to work. Now I may have started looking up to soon or many other problems. (my last shot I tried the fron heel up drill, i did hit that one straight. there were a few others but most were sparp hooks , pulls , then a few to the right. My fairway woods were long and straight but for some reason when I got to the Driver the wheels feel off. |
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simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - July 15 2009 : 12:12:57 PM
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Hi SATTHMNS,
Give me a call sometime and we'll talk about your driver. If you're hitting all your clubs except the driver well then it shouldn't be too big a problem. It does sound like you might have run out of gas at the end of your practice session.
As I'm sure you know, not practicing for a long time, and then going to the range and then hitting "lot of balls in a very short time" is not the most effective way to improve your golf game. 
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf |
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SATTHMNS
121 Posts |
Posted - July 15 2009 : 12:36:57 PM
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Thanks Joe
I was so excited because of how well I was hitting all of my clubs. I was really turning and whipping my shoulders much better too.
I think sometimes i tend to swing too hard with my driver and sway instead of turn. I had a couple of days last summer -fall that I was just killing the Driver straight all day.
Another thing that I found last night was when I could get my self to swing easier with all of my clubs , but still whip the shoulders I really was crushing the ball. |
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simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - July 15 2009 : 1:48:29 PM
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Hi Mike,
What you are saying is very interesting and very relevant to most of us.
We all want to crush our drivers. When we try to do that what usually happens is we get "out of synchronization meaning all the various muscles are not working in an additive way. Mostly what happens is we try to "hit the ball" instead of concentrating on swinging the club.
When you "swing easier" (I don't really like that term because that's really not what you're doing although in some ways it really does feel that way) you're using your muscles in a much more synchronize manner.
To give you an example if I'm playing someone who really hits a very, very long ball I do find myself trying to hit the ball farther. But I've learned not to "try to hit the ball harder" in the normal way. What I do is concentrate on making a bigger core (shoulders, chest & abdomen) turn. If I turn my core more I wind up with much longer shots. If I try to just hit the ball harder I do get out of synchronization and wind up with some less that ideal shots.
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf |
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Homework...
