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oneputt
77 Posts |
 Posted - May 05 2009 : 1:47:31 PM
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My "light bulb moment" happend while watching the DVD "Secrets To "Own Your Swing". Mike repeats it over and over, the left arm at the end of the BS must be parallel to the target line! Once you get turning your shoulders around your spine so your left arm gets into this parallel position, your game will change forever. My problem, untill I watched this particular DVD over and over, was that my left arm came way to the inside of the target line. This resulted in a ball that was pushed way right because my arms were "stuck" behind my body and could not return the club back to the ball square. There is alot of room for personal adjustments in this swing, grip, stance, etc. If you want the ball to fly towards the target, proper alignment is a must and you have to get your left arm parallel to the ball target line during the BS. The right arm must be parallel to the target line during the DS. If it is not in this position, and you swing to the inside during the DS, the ball will be pulled left. These three items are not optional, they are mandatory for the ball to fly towards the target! Incorporate these three things in your swing and you will be amazed at the difference in your ball striking! Hope you have your "light bulb moment"! Ted
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als
80 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 2:54:16 PM
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Hi One putt,
I thought that as well but if you look at mike he is well inside 
or am I misinterpreting what parallel to the target line means |
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 3:34:23 PM
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Amazing, isn't it Ted? All the instruction is good, but this one DVD is a must if you're really committed to SPS. It seems to have about the same effect on me my Grandmother did a lot of years ago when she would give one of my ears a good crank to get my attention. That worked every time, too. On several occasions now I've been able to get back on track by reviewing this lesson, it's gold for the occasional golfer.
Think I have basically the same problem, get the hands/arms to far inside and get stuck. It starts to snowball from there. Then I'll either block it right or open up my hips early and pull it left. When I start following Mike's instruction and get in the correct positions again, the game starts to become a whole lot easier. Couldn't agree with you more.
Als, can you draw a line through the shaft to the target line? Bet that's pretty close. Mike looks right on plane to me, and flexible enough to turn his shoulders to the point his hands/arms have gone past parallel and are coming inside a bit. Coach needs to look at this, but I wouldn't want to be that golf ball.
Best,
kb |
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 3:48:39 PM
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Golf is a game of balance and approximation.
Mike is able to do that as it is way of swinging and besides, if you shoot par golf as he does, it cant be bad.
If you try to be to analytical and precise its easy to forget its a motion which will differ each time you swing.
Dont fall into the swing tech trap.
/rob
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
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simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 4:43:58 PM
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Hi oneputt,
The left arm should be parallel to the target line when the arm is horizontal. For many of us that is the end or top of our backswing (especially when we're learning).
If you swing passed horizontal your arm will start coming up the swing plane which will look like it's inside. If you notice in the picture Mike is past horizontal so it's normal to be inside but on the swing plane at that point.
Remember none of us are perfect. I was a draw player for 40 years so if I'm not paying attention I can get inside on my backswing even today. It doesn't give me a big hook but it certainly can give me a bigger draw than I'd like.
The simplest way I've found to make sure you are on-plane is to do a Shoulder Waggle or as we're now calling it the "Set-Up Waggle". http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=332
I normally do a Set-up Waggle each time I'm setting up for a swing. It's part of my pre-shot routine. When I do a Set-Up Waggle I get to experience what it should feel like being on-plane during my backswing. That pretty much insures that my swing will be on-plane. Doing the waggle you'll see you front arm come back about to the horizontal position so you can check if it's horizontal (or not).
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf LLC
www.SimpleGolf.com
203-798-8489
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 5:06:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by simpleswing
The left arm should be parallel to the target line when the arm is horizontal. For many of us that is the end or top of our backswing (especially when we're learning).
If you swing passed horizontal your arm will start coming up the swing plane which will look like it's inside. If you notice in the picture Mike is past horizontal so it's normal to be inside but on the swing plane at that point.
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf LLC
www.SimpleGolf.com
203-798-8489
Its easy to get sidetracked as images is taken from a particular angle and its easy to come to belive how its suppose to be.
So if I understands it correctly, when "on plane" the arms can look like Mike as when you get back your still on same "plane" as in adress and BS and DS.
/rob
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
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als
80 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 5:15:31 PM
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| He is definitely on plane Kurt, but the instructions are not to go past parallel to the target line, I'm probably more flexible than mike and can turn well past parallel and still not bend my left knee towards the ball, the difference is that mike is a scratch golfer and I'm a 23 handicapper trying to get better by listen and taking in what is said, a hands on lesson certainly helps but since that is out of the question I have to watch and listen carefully, I'm anything but criticizing mike and joe, as I think this is a fantastic site and the their help is unquestionable, but I feel sometimes people have to ask questions that are unclear to them and 99% of the time someone with more knowledge than them, gives an answer that makes the light bulb go on, as Joe has just done we are not all gifted golfers and learners and surely this site is for people to ask questions and not purely about people bragging on how good they are? |
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 5:39:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by als
He is definitely on plane Kurt, but the instructions are not to go past parallel to the target line, I'm probably more flexible than mike and can turn well past parallel and still not bend my left knee towards the ball, the difference is that mike is a scratch golfer and I'm a 23 handicapper trying to get better by listen and taking in what is said, a hands on lesson certainly helps but since that is out of the question I have to watch and listen carefully, I'm anything but criticizing mike and joe, as I think this is a fantastic site and the their help is unquestionable, but I feel sometimes people have to ask questions that are unclear to them and 99% of the time someone with more knowledge than them, gives an answer that makes the light bulb go on, as Joe has just done we are not all gifted golfers and learners and surely this site is for people to ask questions and not purely about people bragging on how good they are?
You can always try to post video of your swing.
its much easier to give proper feedback if you give a visual reference.
words, instructions isnt that easy to follow even on a dvd.
(I know)
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 6:20:46 PM
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You keep asking away, Als. I don't detect a hint of criticism in any of your posts, but I am jealous of these cool pictures you keep posting (not to mention your flexibility). I think the forum has been great lately, and I've been learning a lot thanks to yourself and all the others that post here. I know I get carried away, but hopefully haven't offended anyone. I do apologize if that's the case. I have a ton of room left for improvement myself, and just want to learn and help if I can.
Best,
Kurt |
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Bill Stephens
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 6:53:45 PM
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| Oneputt - that was a great post. I've been working on Symple swing for two years and, while basically happy with the results, I still had far too many pulls, hooks and offline shots. Your emphasis on keeping the left arm parallel to the target line has really helped. I just hit a bucket at the range and couldn't believe it! I'm excited about my next game! I also found that, to keep on line, I shortened my backswing and, amazingly, that gave me more distance. |
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simpleswing
951 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 7:34:06 PM
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One thing you should note about the picture of Mike is where the butt of his club is pointing. (see red line)
If the butt of your club is pointing at the extended target line (with a nice flat wrist) like Mike's is then you are going to have a pretty darn good swing.
When I do a Set-Up Waggle I concentrate mainly on making sure the butt of my club is pointing at the target line. At least with me, if I come inside on the backswing, pretty much all the time I wind up with the butt of my club pointing inside the extended target line (shaft too vertical). So I don't have to check my arm position because if I get the butt of the club pointing at the extended target line then I know my arms are automatically in the right position.
Joe Davidson
Simple Golf |
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pat72
16 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 8:31:19 PM
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Ok, now you all got it. I am really confused now about the "left arm parrallel to the target line". When I make a 90 degree turn with my shoulders to the left and if I hold my triangle (;-)), then my left arm never can be parallel to the target line. At least not possible with my anatomy
The club can be parallel before cocking, but never left arm. To get the left arm parallel you have to stop before the 90 degree turn.
Could anyone please clearify that for me?
Thanks,
Pat72 |
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jclenden
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 11:36:17 PM
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Try this. Lay a club behind the ball pointing down the target line. Take your golf stance but without a club - just point your left arm toward the ball. Now rotate your shoulders back so that your left arm is parallel to the ground. At this point in time it should also be parallel to the club/target line. If it isn't, adjust your left arm position until it is. Now, do the same thing over again, except include your right arm by clasping your hands. This time, as you go back the right arm "gives" as needed to support this left arm position. The right arm is very passive. For me, the right arm is bent to a 90* angle by the time my left arm is parallel to the ground and target line. Worry more about the left arm position than the right arm. Just make sure you don't lift the right elbow. Instead, let it collapse by pointing down toward the ground. Does that help at all? NOTE: your follow through will be identical, except the right arm will be extended down the target line and the left elbow will collapse by pointing down toward the ground.
Jeff |
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flendog
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2009 : 01:08:35 AM
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als: one point that is in the origional Symple swing DVD that Mike stated and has not been mentioned in this post yet is; Mike stated that in the backswing when turning the core the right or front shoulder should stay level. I have been learning this the hard way, because I am not tall I was turning my core by turning and lifting my right shoulder at about a 45degree angle upward. This throws me off the shoulder plane because it lifts me up a little. It also made me feel very flexable, but ruins the swing.Yes I got a big turn and the club went inside, but then I had to over use my lower body to get it out of the way, if that makes any sense. I have been practicing the waggle, and keeping my right shoulder lever during the BS and at horizonal the ______club does point down the target ling.Mike also indicated , if I understand correctly, that on the BS the back elbow rotates down and the front elbow rotates up. In other words the front elbow bends a little. After you pass horizonal on the BS the club will move inside due to the turning of the core. My problems with turning and lifting my right shoulder, not wanting to have a slight bend of the right elbow and getting the lower body too involved are hold overs from years of being pounded with the conventional golf swing.I am realizing that mixing conv. golf moves with SS only screws up my swing. I hope this helps.
Bill S. I love my new driver. HF
HMF |
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als
80 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2009 : 08:14:19 AM
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Kurt, there was no way my feelings were towards you, I just felt that some more knowledgeable simple swingers lacked a bit of patience with us lesser mortals and were a bit dismissive of our questions and the enormous benefit we get from the answers.
In the last week alone I've gained 2 really great pieces of info that for the past 4 years plus have held back my improvement, the turn of the upper body on the follow through ie baseball player and the fact the hands Don't have to be that high as a matter of fact it should be 3 Flendog's last post about the front shoulder staying level, I've probably been very guilty of dropping the front shoulder and raising the rear to stop myself turning to flat and have been trying to steer the club at the target. So guys, please keep up with the questions as I certainly get a lot from the answers and a bit of indulgence from the “gods” would be appreciated.
Thanks
Als
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kfarkle
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2009 : 2:43:45 PM
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Thanks Als, I didn't think so but I know it's hard to get the right take on what's being said in these forums,. Not only the instruction, but the sentiment as well some time. I tend to ramble on a lot. and need to get straightened out at times. Your approach is more direct than mine. I'm not usually savvy enough to get to the heart of the matter, as been done here. I fish from the bank getting wet and you're out in the boat with the heater on. You're right though, the fishing has been good this year!
For what it's worth, I think what helps me keep my left shoulder level is relaxing the right shoulder/arm. Mike talks about a student on his last DVD that has all this tension and how he gets him to relax his right hand/arm/shoulder and create a whip with his left arm and shoulder turn. I think the thumb hinge creates the lag you need and the feel for me is like snapping a towel as this accelerates and releases past the ball and the force pulls you into a nice balanced finish. Very relaxed and surprisingly powerful...when I don't muck it up trying to 'kill it'...the irony.
When I saw the picture of Mike I saw that little bit of extra gas I'd like to have left in the tank. I don't need to be stomping my heel down or running at the ball, just need a tiny bit more turn of the shoulders with the hands/arms up the plane. Reserved for a tee shot that may allow for it or maybe when you're stuck between clubs. 99.9% of the time I just need to get to parallel with a good lower body turn, level and relaxed, make that good upper body turn through the ball and snap the towel. Now I can't wait to get back out! Oh, I like that drill of yours too, Jeff. Good indoor practice.
Cheers,
kb |
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bkroon
223 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2009 : 4:33:44 PM
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Well, this has been an extremely interesting and informative topic.
Thanks to oneputt for introducing the topic.
Thanks to Joe for reminding us of the "Set-Up Waggle" http://simpleswing.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=332
And to all the rest of you for the questions and answers.
Regarding the "Set-Up Waggle" .....went and viewed this topic again.....went to the driving range this noon and practiced using the above.....Wow what a difference. I remember now, reading this somewhere and using it ...... then forgetting and it drifted away.
One of the values in these discussions is the reminder to us of what we should be doing....and what we have drifted into forgetting to do.
Ah well, the memory is a beautiful thing.
To paraphrase Yogi Bera....New York Yankee baseball great, hall of famer, part time catcher, and full time philospher.......90% of this game is mental and the rest is all in your head.
Now if I can just remember where I put that blankety blank Own Your Swing DVD......
Rob in Sunny Phoenix |
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flendog
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2009 : 11:52:08 PM
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ALS; Sorry, I need to correct myself. About half way through my post yesterday, I stated I try to keep my right shoulder level during the back swing. I should have said my LEFT or front shoulder. Also to me horizonal is close to waist high on the back swing, and if I'm turning the core, the club is parallel to the target line. One thing I started lately, is to put a weight or "donut" on my driver and swing it, once i'm in a good stance, using just my left shoulder. I'm trying to get my over-active lower body less active using muscle memory. This may sound odd, but i learned that I do not consciously have to transfer weight during my swing playing baseball on a Wii. I was hitting pitches thrown by the computer just using my right hand, not striding but just standing using my hand. I'll be damned but every time with out trying my weight shifted to my left side with out thinking about shifting, on it's own. So, if just swing my hand standing still shifted my weight, imagine what whipping a club with my left shoulder does.
Anyway, I meant my left not my right shoulder. I did not mean to confuse any one HF
HMF |
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als
80 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2009 : 04:08:03 AM
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Hi Flendog
No need to apologise, I thought you meant left or you were left handed
I'm quite surprised that when I was using the wii fit, to find that when I stand normally, I have a lot more weight on the left leg than the right, so maybe that’s why I reverse pivot or is that just my excuse for being rotten at this game but to be serious I will try out what you are saying and try not to make a conscious weight shift and see what happens.
Als
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flopper
Sweden
320 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2009 : 10:27:06 AM
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als, remeber the force to brace the left leg is somewhat down towards left heel/middle of foot.
not going straight left which could move one ahead of the curve.
to keep the angle at impact one is somewhat leaning back as one moves forward (bracing).
I am working to find the positions my body happens to be at, so I can feel the motion and movement.
This becoems later internalize feel with visual acuity.
From 11hcp to tourpro level 2009?
Got it how to swing Symple. Same swing with superb puttning. Low 70 scores here I come! |
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Light bulb moment !
